Is Rordan Hart Against People Walking In Trumansburg?
From the December 11 meeting of the Trumansburg Village Board of Trustees, which was attended by Rordan Hart:
“Mr. R. Hart added to the conversation that his wife is a realtor and that he can provide proof that increased foot traffic in a residential neighborhood decreases property values.”
I know that this comment was made in the context of the proposed skate park, which it seems will no longer take place with the endorsement of the village government. Nonetheless, this statement implies an underlying philosophy of community that deserves some exploration.
Does Rordan Hart really believe that when people walk around in their neighborhoods, it’s bad for property values? Does Mr. Hart really believe that it should be a goal of the Trumansburg village government to discourage Trumansburg residents from walking?
What does he suggest as an alternative? That we all drive more around the village?
How does increased automobile traffic through a residential neighborhood affect property values?
Would you be willing to vote for an anti-walking candidate for the Trumansburg Village Board of Trustees?
There seems to be an awful lot of nit-picking at Rordan Hart. Is there no comment that fellow candidates David Filiberto or Chris Thomas have made that we could put out there as well? It seems very one-sided, which i know is part of a blog. However, if public officials should be scrutinized, let’s do it to all of them. Let’s up the ante for the the others and challenge them to do better even if we think they are doing well.
I have to say that I thought about asking Mr. R. Hart about this comment at the forum, but I didn’t get a chance. He didn’t really say he was against walking around, just something to the effect that “research has shown that having a lot of foot traffic in front of your house lowers your property value.” This was something that his wife, who works as communication director of a real estate office, told him. At the time I told him I’d be interested in seeing this research, or at least a citation, which he told me he would provide me but I never heard back on this issue. I was also curious how much was “a lot” of foot traffic. 100 people an hour? 20 people a day? I tried googling it, but also didn’t find anything online. Anybody know anything about this?
Myself, I kind of enjoy it when I’m outside (usually when the weather is nice and I’m working in my garden in front) and people walk by. It’s one of the things about living in a small town, if you don’t know the person walking by, you can always say hi, and maybe get a conversation going, maybe meet a new neighbor. If you do know them, saying hello is just a friendly thing to do.
Carissa,
I agree with you that all candidates deserve scrutiny, but I’m giving Rordan Hart special scrutiny for a reason. I don’t call it nit-picking, because I do believe it’s important when someone stands for election that voters consider the details.
Why am I giving more scrutiny to Rordan Hart? It’s because he’s the intentional mystery of the campaign.
He says that he doesn’t have a vision for Trumansburg, and that he just wants to be our butler, and our servant. Rordan Hart says that he’ll just listen, and do whatever people want him to do. He suggests that he has no agenda, and I don’t believe that. Rordan Hart is a human being, not a sock puppet. Every human being has an agenda.
The difference with Rordan Hart is that he isn’t sharing his agenda. He’s not sharing it with us, and pretending that it doesn’t exist. That makes me distrustful, and curious at the same time.
So, if Rordan Hart won’t share his agenda, I think it’s necessary to look at the available clues. Also, if Rordan Hart says that he doesn’t have a vision for Trumansburg, and we should just vote for him because he has character, then we should examine Rordan Hart’s character in action.
David Filiberto has a record and has been quite outspoken on the details. Chris Thomas has served on local governmental committees. He has a record too, and has been quite specific in describing his positions on particular issues – the continuation of the comprehensive plan, and the updating of zoning laws, for example.
What do we hear of Rordan Hart? That he has a good character, and that he’s lived here a long time. That’s not enough for me.
Besides, unless I’m forgetting something I wrote before, I’ve only written two articles about Rordan Hart alone. I don’t think that’s over-the-top. I issued an open invitation for people to ask questions of David Filiberto and Chris Thomas in my home the other week. Hard questions were asked. They got scrutiny.
Other people write here, too. Mary Bouchard wrote an article yesterday, for example, in which she gives some criticism to both Rordan Hart and David Filiberto.
I would very much like to hear from you, concerning any scrutiny you’d like to give to David Filiberto, or Chris Thomas, or anyone else (including me, if you like). If you’d like to write such critical pieces here, just give me a phone call today, and I’ll set you up with an account. I’d love to have you offering another voice, complementing or even countering mine, here at Finding Ulysses.
Back to the subject of walking in Trumansburg. Mary, I’m glad to see that I am not the only one who has questioned the ideas that underlie this deceptively simple statement by Rordan Hart (I’m not trying to imply that it was purposefully deceptive, just that its apparent simplicity belies a depth of implications.)
I moved to Trumansburg because it’s a good community for walking, but we are split in two by a highway that causes some danger for pedestrians, especially children. I would like to see the state come in and do a study of the traffic patterns here, and see what it would take for us to get a stop light.
I hear a great deal about the difficulty of getting a stop light on a state route, but I know many intersections on state highways that have less traffic than the corner of route 96 and Congress – yet they have stop lights. I don’t know the law, but I know that sometimes it is difficult, and even dangerous, just to try to cross traffic here in our village.
The Main Street Project made it better, but there is still the problem of heavy traffic. I don’t mind people coming to our village to spend money, but we need to manage the flow more effectively.
I am concerned that the new business area outside the village on route 96, that so many people say will inevitably be filled with even more businesses, will bring more traffic through the village without much benefit to us, and will encourage those of us who live in the village to abandon our walking ways and learn to drive on errands that used to be walkable. That brings more automobile traffic through residential streets.
So, Rordan Hart’s suggestion that foot traffic is harmful should, I think, be considered relative to the harm that automobile traffic causes.
My opinion is that we need a Village Trustee who has thought these issues through with care, and has been involved in the comprehensive planning process, which concerns our collective vision for Trumansburg.
Seems to me Mary has the right idea. If Jonathan’s quote is correct, Hart said he could provide proof. Mary seems to have been the only who asked to see it and hasn’t heard anything. My guess is that we’re talking about a study that in the light of day would end up having little or no application to the Village of Trumansburg. But why should we have to guess? Mr. Hart, where’s the proof you offered? Let’s look it over and talk about it sensibly.
So as usual Mr. Hart’s comments are distorted I suspect.
I know a blog is to espouse one’s own point of view apparently. So I guess this is fine. But what about truth regarding such comments?
I would like to see the exact quote and context of the statement about walking. Mr. Hart did not call Mr. Filiberto asinine just that some behavioers were asinine. So I suspect this no walking issue is the same kind of slanted political bull.
Walking would be noce in Trumansburg and t[=one thing would be to continues sidewalks to hthos businesses near but outside the village.
Now there was a complaint about those businesses not paying village taxes but ethose same indicviduals are agains any sort of growth to help with the tax base in the area. Once Again if they are concerned regarding taxes then they should pay the share which grows because of a no growth sentimnent. Law of nature: when
growth stops there is death. simple enough rule of thumb. Control growth would be a good idea
not just objection with no or lkimited knowledge. From Mr. Ellis’ proposals it is apparent he does not realize water runs downhill that is why engineers are used for such info. As to his not running at present for town supervisor I guess that is why he triesd to increase wage and staff for Town government so he can actually do the job abd not have to take a pay cut.
WD5 would have been an excellent step in developing water supplies to Both Town and Village but has been stone walled from the get go because Doug Austic was for it. No other reason apparently. The idea was never ever presented to those people it would directly effect for some reason or other and the
Town board refused to let mr. Austic ask those concerned without first obfuscating the issue with innumerable straw men. Seems crinminal to skew representation so much as a town board member who is elected supposedly to representr the town’s interest instead of the interest of a select, effete few.
The idea of impoeachnnet needs to be locally recommended also. Geoffery Hart has a good point I think. As one who was prevetned from saying my piece at a town meeting then that is also criminal in my view. And those involved should be removed from office
same as in the village situation. An effete few wanted to bulldoze a skate park into some area of the village without full disclosure. While the skate park is a good idea and a worthwhile pursuit it would seem best to get the most support possible for such a venture before ramrodding it through people’s back yards. But everyone should be apprised of the plan first. Same as with WD5. obvious misuse of power such as poewer is in a village board or town board. The public needs to know as much as possible abpout all sides of an issue to make an informed choice. Not just the propaganda proffered by a few. Let’s get back to real fair government this is not a contest of wills entirely. Let’s actually see some representation.
Do you think it is still possible in todays twisted political climate?
I wonder.
Guess I forgot to mention annexation of outside village areas if taxes is so important. Then Village goverment may mot need to be dissolved but it seems to have outlived its usefulness.
What about municipal power company formation? It is another no-brainer for improvement of power rates including transportation. Lvied in Fairport a while a few years ago and was shocked when I got a monthly power bill of $4.80 … Even called to ask if they had fogotten some digits. Granted we could not get to those prices but we could save abundle over long term by establishing such a power option. Several surrounding towns have thes established already. why not Trumansburg or Ulysses?
Think about useful progress not just preventing everything. Represent the town and village properly.
Uh, Barry, I got the selection straight from the village records. I’m not distorting it.
Is the walking issue slanted politcal bull, Barry? How so?
Who is effete in this village, Barry? If you’re going to start throwing around insults against people in Trumansburg, you ought to get specific or withdraw your slurs.
Barry, it is not a law of nature that when growth stops there is death. I stopped growing at about the age of 22, like most people, and I didn’t die.
effete \eh-FEET; ih-\, adjective:
1. No longer capable of producing young; infertile; barren; sterile.
2. Exhausted of energy; incapable of efficient action; worn out.
3. Marked by self-indulgence or decadence; degenerate.
4. Overrefined; effeminate.
redneck
A slang term, usually for a rural white southerner who is politically conservative, racist, and a religious fundamentalist (see fundamentalism). This term is generally considered offensive.
So let’s get back to the issues of this campaign, as difficult as they are to divine from blog postings and newspaper articles about this election.
As far as I can tell, these are the issues most discussed by the candidates
#1: Open government- this is Hart’s main issue. He is angry about a decision to put a skate park near his father’s house. His father is suing the local Trumansburg government for deceiving the public. (to follow this logic, the entire Republican Federal administration should be impeached). Candidate David has apologized to the property owners, admitted that it was a mistake for local government to champion a skate park, and made it clear that he doesn’t think the village should be involved in the future. What else do these people want? Why are they still crying about it? Some claim that they are not allowed to speak at public meetings run by democrats. They have obviously never been at the receiving end of an Austic meeting where they are not allowed to speak. Most likely Hayes and Hart and the like don’t mind much when people with opposing opinions to their own are silenced. Hart claims that he will do the will of the people, be their butler. Since democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1 in the village, I wouldn’t count on this – since he’d be constantly going against his core constituency. Rordan hart is running for election out of anger and vengeance. Not good reasons, to become my representative.
#2: main street project: according to a recent survey, it seems that the population is mostly 50/50 in terms of thinking Trumansburg is changing for the better vs for the worse. My read on this is main street project. Half the people here are just fine with a dilapidated town center, half want it to improve. David and Thomas are pro-main street. Which half do you think Rordan Hart is on? Hard to say – he hasn’t told us.
#3: Civility in government: Rordan Hart and his attack dogs on this blog call people who don’t agree with them “asinine†and “effeteâ€. Enough said.
#4: Comprehensive plan and village Zoning: David and Chris have a lot to say about these. Hart? Nothing. Zero. See the Ithaca journal article if you don’t believe this. Try to determine anything about his positions from the reporting on the open meeting he attended. Trumansburg meets three trustee candidates at forum Ithaca journal sat 3/17/07.
And here I quote
“The candidates also fielded questions on the future of the village.
Both Filiberto and Thomas said that in the immediate future the completion of the comprehensive plan was one of the chief goals to accomplish, along with a new zoning plan, both of which will establish the criteria for new development in the village.â€
Notice who said nothing about the future of the village? Rory Hart. Who is running for a 5 year term.
So these 4 issues are what I can see are the issues facing us in this election. Some here (like Steven Ferrari of the Trumansburg “free†press) claim that national politics have nothing to do with this. I disagree. As republican Tip O’Neil famously said “all politics is localâ€.
If you are a democrat, voting for a local republican means that you agree with that the national platform that they subscribe to. It means that you understand that this person may rise through the ranks to less local and more national prominence, perhaps at some point being in a position to be in even more control of your personal business than they may be at the local level.
Let’s look at the current platform of the republican party (www.gop.com)
1: Winning the war on terror. If you think (as 28% of Americans do) that we are on the right track with the war in Iraq, then by all means support a candidate from this party. Especially one who won’t support a local pro-impeachment resolution
2: Ushering in an Ownership Era: how many houses in Trumansburg are affordable to new young families? Which party do you believe is more receptive to newcomers in this area? The “I’ve been here forever†Hart’s, or the newcomers Filiberto and Thomas? Our future lies in recruiting young families into the area to support the schools, taxes, and local businesses.
3: Building an Innovative globally competitive economy: codeword: outsourcing. Less taxes for the rich.
4:Strengtheining our communities: health care, womens health. Are you for a woman’s right to choose in family planning issues? Most republican’s aren’t.
5: Protecting our families. Obviously code for gay marriage amendment. Do you believe that marriage MUST be between a man and a woman? Well, vote republican then! Federal, state, local, whatever it takes!!!
So a message to Trumansburg democrats like prominent anti-war and social justice activist Jules Bergevin (recently heard at a public meeting “appalled†by Filleberto for his actions on the skate park which was to have been close to his house) who think they can “send a message†to our local leadership for their mistakes – by voting republican…
By all means, go and vote for a representative of the party which seeks to turn back women’s rights, gay rights, and conduct illegal wars. These all pale in importance to some more noise and foot traffic in your neighborhood.
But to everyone else, know and understand the issues, but also understand that you are part of a party for a reason. Because you believe in the party’s platform. And this platform extends all the way from the white house in DC to the little white building on elm street. And don’t let anyone try to convince you otherwise. The term for these 2 positions is 5 years. Who are the candidates and the party you want to see leading this village through 2012?
Jeez, x, thanks for the wake-up– looks like after a few more years, I actually WILL be effete, just via the natural process of menopause. Who knew? I always thought they meant you were too well-to-do and “over-refined”… which don’t exactly describe me. ‘Course, I’m not a redneck, either, although all the rest of my (large) family-of-birth are rural conservative fundamentalists. We get along fine, BTW.
Now, as for Barry Hayes comments– public water lines DO NOT run downhill in all instances, that is why we have a water tower across from my friend Ken’s house (nice placement– he lives on the Enfield Town Line so nobody needed to care if it threw a shadow on his house and garden or not) and a pump station down the road from me on Wolff Lane. And, in civilized places, they bring in engineers to do the plumbing work after the planners help work out where the water is needed and appropriate. You know, just like engineers work after the architect on a building. Turns out better that way. And my concern about WD5 is sure not that it was Doug’s idea– it is that it was arranged to qualify for “hardship” funding from the state, not to bring water service to the areas suffering from the most water problems, or experiencing the most new development, or where there are already other services appropriate to dense development (such as natural gas lines or proximity to sewer lines) or within walking distance of major employers (like the hospital) or that have petitioned the town to be able to hook on to water lines within yards of their homes. All these apply to my neighborhood, and not to many of the neighborhoods that were included in WD5. Doug is no expert, that is for sure, but my concerns about WD5 are not personal (as in, about persons), they are professional and objective. Of course, they are somewhat personal, in that the lack of public water is preventing me from making the most economically advantageous use of my property.
Thanks for the definition, X.
So, Barry, come on. Name names. You do you accuse of being effete?
I’m personally against using the term redneck.
First of all, I’ve done work in agriculture. You get very little money for a lot of hard work, and yes, your neck gets red. I’ve had many red necks in my time. They’re the product of work we all need, and should be a source of pride, not derision.
If we’re against racists with small minds, then let’s say that. Let’s not make an automatic link between hard-working rural people and intolerance.
Jonathan,
Did you write the post above signed “Effete T-burger”. It’s very good. Barry – have you ever heard of a spell checker? Your posts are such a struggle. I gave up. I wasn’t getting much out of them.
Jonathan
“If we’re against racists with small minds, then let’s say that. Let’s not make an automatic link between hard-working rural people and intolerance.”
Ok – fair enough. It’s just that , in my experience, people who insinuate others are “gay” when they don’t agree with them are:
a) conservatives and racists
b) 5th graders
or perhaps both?
but you’re right, not all “rednecks” are intolerant racists. I was just looking for a word which was the opposite of “effete”. Any other ideas?
heterosexual rural dwellers?
X, I’m a heterosexual. There’s a big difference between being a heterosexual and being an anti-gay bigot.
Why not just talk about the behaviors and attitudes that we don’t like? If someone’s being bigoted, say they’re being bigoted. If they’re being racist, say they’re being racist.
It’s the difference between David Filiberto’s attitude and Rordan Hart’s attitude. David Filiberto accused Rordan Hart of encouraging nativist ideology – a particular set of beliefs that can be either refuted or embraced. Rordan Hart, on the other hand, just insulted David Filiberto, calling him, in effect, stupid, silly, and like an ass.
Allen, I have no idea who the Effete Trumansburger is. It’s not me.
Hmm. The opposite of effete. Now that I am on this meaning I just learned, maybe it is “fecund.” Always thought that one sounded oppulent, in an agricultural kind of way, you know, full breasts and full baskets… but, maybe, for replacing “redneck,” you were after a more masculine ruraldweller word? I know it is a newspaper name, but, “country folks” works pretty well. Or, if you are feeling flowery for spring, how about “salt-of-the-earth practical people”?
Barry, I am hardly your average Cornell type; child of poor country folks, wife of a carpenter, read my first academic journals on breaks from cleaning house for the “effete types” (who I also found things to like and appreciate in). But, I do have to buy water to fill my well in August and September in dry years, and I do know that we could extend water lines very inexpensively in Ulysses very much the same way that Town of Ithaca did: by putting them in areas where developers will be willing to shoulder the cost of infrastructure installation. It is not the only way to go, but to not even consider it is utterly ridiculous.
BTW– regarding homophobia: always thought that maybe one of the reasons my neighborhood got so much ignoring was because there are so many wonderful lesbian families in it. I’m proud to have them as neighbors, myself.
Yes the spell checker would be a good idea
but I hate to take the time to use Word then copy and paste it into the blog. It isn’t spelling anyway
it is typing. Have never really learned to type until recently and have not learned yet. but am learning. At the ripe old age of 65 I don’t want to waste too much time on these things but do seem to.
Will try to be more careful so at least the jist gets through. Jonathan,
You did not stop growing at unless you are dead. Yourblog proves that yu are learning and teaching every day so growth is continuing.
Let’s see Effete I was thinking of past elections national when someone referred to effete intellectual snobs’forget who to whom but the phrase seemed appropriate. May not have been. I am against almost all the republican platform on the national level as to Right to Choose, War I Iraq etc. But sometimes there needs to be a change it happened with the Dems last election of town board members and I am sorry to have voted the way I did. The Water district was never presented to the public for discussion except once and in a very prejudiced form so nothing was ever accomplished there. The concept of developers financing water development is also viable as an option it seems. I really didn’t mind about the water district but only the crookled misleading tactics used to discourage it
The biggest thing was never allowing the real proposal to ever get to those concerned in the first place. That is criminal in my book and deserves Impeachment. If Clinton was impeached for his “crimes” then I guess the present guy should probably be more than impeached but there never seems to be enough support for that sort of thing because of the herding Cats thing with the DEMS . We as a nation are in a spot and it is becasue we have given too much power to one brach of the so called government and are ruled primarily by the Military Industrial Complex which Eisenhower was wise enough to see. However now we have it and it is not a very promising thong to look at as Halliburton gains power over government decisions and the Government supports Halliburton. Halliburton only being used symbolically here as meaning the defense/oil Industry. These are part of the reason we have no alternate energy plans or development and no railroads and no conservative poilticy regarding energy conservation. We still seem to think we have the right… no the obligation to waste as much energy as we can. Perhaps a nice radical idea would be a $5 surchrge per gallon of gas and use it to exclusively finance railroad building. Gm Could be building rail cars and so could others. Seems really stupid to be driving cars all over the place and what about 20 or 25 horsepower l;awn mowers? How crazy is that?
Anyway
My faith in politics has necver been very soldi for actual accomplishment but I guess it is what we have. Local politics inclkuded. Although I kind of liked David Filiberto I will be intrerested in seeing what happens to village Government now. Maybe it will be a little more representative of the local people. Maybe I mean Elite of Trumansburg the rich kids I envision moving to town and wanting to prevent further growth because they like it just the way it is. Well nothing stays the way it is. The best we can hope for is to guide things a little. Don’t really mean to be so pejorative by using effete so reclessly but seems tha tthe elite types seem to do this ea lot of places where they move to someplace and try to prevent anyone else from moving there. As if to say, ok I have found my place try to keep it the same. Flexibilty is key to survival …….. there are many ways to solve most problems. At least the pejoratives get the attention I suppose.
The dishonesty in Town politics is what makes me mad. same as in Federal politics. I think Doug Austic should have sent out the infromation to the people concerned in the proposed water district but he was blocked from doing even that by a few membwers of the Town Board. That is the kind of think I object to. oh also not being allowed to speak at a town meeting seems quite high handed as well and probably is also Illegal. Most annoying. So I like a good deal of what I see on the blog here
at least some ideas are flowing. And we can all vent a bit here and there. good forum i guess
new to me as to most of my generation (pre baby boomer)
What about municipal power?
Have recently thought that is an option for any town and might prove to be worthwhile considering.
Too many words. Later